Who else hates fillers?

[ByakuyaMayuri]

Tsukuyomi, Lets put it this way the canon version is nowhere near perfect, and people shouldn't be hating on fillers just because it isn't canon. In fact Amagai arc was a perfect example of what should've happen (Well not exactly how it occurred) in the canon. After Aizen, Gin and Tosen betrayed the soul society whatever happen to the idea of replacing the empty 3 captain slots, especially at a time when Aizen declared war against the soul society.

I thought bounts arc was actually more interesting then the fullbring arc. Bount arc had so much more emotions rather than Fullbring arc. Not only did we see a sad struggle of Kariya throughout his childhood, but we also saw how Uryu developed feelings for one of the bounts, Yoshino, who turned rouged against Kariya who eventually ended up dying at the hands of him. You can't help but to feel for the poor Quincy boy.

If you want to be current on the fillers.. Lets use Gotei 13 Invasion Army for an example. I don't know about anyone else, but I am interested in the history behind the mod souls, and where they actually came from and so on. Here we see a fragile mined Nozomi who didn't want to get close to anyone. Many thought that she was highly annoying, and I guess thats ok since she wasn't the most aggressive one in the pack. I found it very interesting how a mod soul was able to established a zanpaktou and actually obtained a shikai as a result. Is it possible that a mod soul can also establish the use of bankai?!?!?!? It just enlightens me to want to see the the true Nemu form, and to figure out why she has that same red necklace that we saw when Rukia was in prison in the SS arc. Theirs gotta be a story behind it, and maybe Mayuri is sealing off most of her powers for a reason?

Also the filler didnt drag ass as much as the fullbring arc had... and to bring back the bount... their form of power was so much more interesting to see then the fullbrings.

[Tsukuyomi]

You failed to address the fact that the fullbring arc is currently ongoing while the bount arc is finished. With this said, we have no clue what will happen from the latest chapter and onward. Perhaps it will turn out to be rather interesting, at the very least the last chapter appeared promising.

[ByakuyaMayuri]

Originally Posted by Tsukuyomi

You failed to address the fact that the fullbring arc is currently ongoing while the bount arc is finished. With this said, we have no clue what will happen from the latest chapter and onward. Perhaps it will turn out to be rather interesting, at the very least the last chapter appeared promising.

I think I know that already. The bount arc has been completed for a long time now. Did you read the rest of what I said or did you read just parts? I was comparing Fullbring arc to the current filler arc, Gotei 13 Invasion Army, and so far it's doing great.

[Nuclei]

I hate fillers too so you're not alone.

[weedalin]

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

Wrong. Fillers are only released because the manga and the anime run at a different pace. Since Kubo isn't affiliated with the fillers, it doesn't slow him down.

So, you say he is affiliated with the fillers and now you say he isn't?

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

This would only be true if you would insist the anime episodes would be released at the same rate as Kubo's manga, which is impossible unless Kubo would be forced to speed up his pace, which wouldn't be good for Bleach either.

That's entirely questionable, since none of us knows Kubo personally.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

Okay. Agreeing to that, you're basically saying 95 of Bleach, main plot or not, is crap. Congratulations.

Cool! I don't know how this is relevant to the main issue at hand, but whatever.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

I didn't reread my post and apparently the sentence was cut off. 'I was referring to the main plot because I don't find the fillers any less enjoyable than the main plot regardless of the lack of things you deem a prerequisite for a 'right of existence', which makes me wonder if they're truly as important as you're making it seem.

Enjoyable does not make something good.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

This might be because Bleach's plot is rather limited regardless and it's mostly simply about awesome fighting scenes, which, I repeat, is not bad.

There have been moments where Kubo has shown he can pull off nuanced plot progression. I would just like to see more of that. But this is also irrelevant to the main point, which is about the fillers.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

Finding a part of my post amusing without managing to say anything proper to it isn't going to help you with your argument.

What else can I say to the fact that you think it's funny that my expectations are high?

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

Hold on a second. You're basically implying there is a possibility filler does not suck? Apparently it's not all as black and white as you wanted it to seem at first, who ever knew.

Oh, perhaps I should have said this at the beginning. When I said that Bleach filler sucks, I meant that based on the evidence, there is a high probability that this is true, high enough to just assume the absolute.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

As for the 'personal attacks' you're mentioning, you must be seeing ghosts because there are none. I merely stated a fact. I've already noticed that you like ultimatums a lot, there's no real need to stress it.

So, because I dislike it when art is made primarily for money, I need to "grow up"? Personal attack and intellectual cop-out. Not to mention an oversimplification and misinterpretation of my point.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

The music and gaming industry is a whole different thing, stop relating to it.

Another cop-out. This is entertainment. The different mediums of entertainment share parallels. They do not exist in their own separate dimensions.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

I already explained to you the reason fillers exist. As for the money issue, Kubo needs money to keep everything rolling, and if money is a motivation for him to keep going and deliver this show I like, if it helps him to deliver better quality because better material becomes available,

What do you mean by "better" material? What is this material? And how would it be better? And how would it be a given that Kubo would deliver better quality stuff because of this better material?

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

if it allows him to move at his own pace because his need for money decreases,

Is he actually hurting for money?

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

if Bleach has to be big so it can reach all corners of the world, including my own then by all means, he can have all the money he wants.

How does filler expand Bleach?

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

There is no real difference between the intention behind the creation of fillers or the manga: both are created for making money, and so people at home can enjoy them, an important factor you seem to be forgetting.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

In fact, the creators of the anime do more work creating a filler arc than translating a manga to an anime, for reasons you can figure out for your own. I'm pretty sure they could just grab another popular manga and milk that out if they weren't genuinely happy with working with Bleach. Do you imagine the people behind them as completely hollow persons with no mind for anything else other than money? Do you believe they could continue doing their job if they didn't like it, or didn't put their heart and soul in it?

Not sure why you used a straw-man here; the issue is the filler, not the people who create it. Arbitrarily characterizing them is just silly.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

I'll answer that for you. Businessmen, who make everything possible so the creation is possible and don't care for the end result as long as they get their cash, are more usually those hollow persons who only think about money (I refuse to generalize completely). The actual creators, however, generally aren't. The businessmen could just drop the project if it doesn't make enough money though, so the actual creators have all the reason they need to attempt to create quality because their jobs are at stake. Whether they manage to do so or not is a matter of opinion, but, knowing this, you cannot claim the filler arcs are made with solely the intent of making more money in mind, not from the creator's perspective.

So, even if the filler shows the characteristics of content made with money in mind, all that doesn't matter because you just made a supposition that isn't rooted in anything tangible?

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

And I'll say it again: fillers are created against the context of the world Kubo created to tell his story, not the context of the main plot alone, which makes their existence completely logical as long as they don't interfere with these contexts in a way that is inexplicable, something I'm sure Kubo at least makes sure.

Absolutely wrong.

Let me tell you what Bleach filler is. Since the context the fillers give don't have any impact on the plot whatsoever (since they can't be used in the main plot), Bleach fillers are fanservice to the equivalent of Pottermore.

Here, however, is the difference between Bleach filler and Pottermore is that Pottermore is being released after the main plot is said and done for. Bleach fillers are being released in the midst of the main plot's creation.

That isn't good.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

You said it yourself: his intention isn't just money, if we are shown fillers it is because he is happy with them as well.

So, he is affiliated? Or he isn't? Stop changing your mind.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

You have a right to disagree with Kubo if you so wish, but you don't have a right to insist he would do things differently,

Ah, you interpreted my suggestion as an insistence? And I believe it should be should, not would. Would implies something nasty.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

and on top of that insist all of his fans to the same.

You are free to believe that fillers are good despite evidence to the contrary. Just don't patronize me for expecting people to be logical. If you like filler, great. Just acknowledge that you'd be accepting the large and significant number of flaws that exist within filler.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

Because that's basically what you're doing, saying there are no logical grounds for us to say the fillers are good while, apparently, we are allowed to think them enjoyable, in which case we should be dumb per definition.

Why is that? We can enjoy "bad" entertainment.

Say that "bad' material is material whose bad flaws overwhelm the good; it's perfectly acceptable to say that you enjoy this bad material in spite of its flaws. However, it's logically bankrupt to insist that it's good when the evidence clearly points the other way.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

Now I can at least tell you're not dumb from this discussion no matter how hard we may disagree, so from my point of view you should be able to tell I'm not dumb either, which would beat your theory of people enjoying the fillers being dumb.

It's quite amusing to see you misinterpret me. I'll clarify for you.

I never explicitly called any person "dumb." I labeled actions/tendencies of people as "dumb." There's a difference. I hope you can see it.

Which just completely dismantles your pseudo-hypothetical-presumptuous-logic.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

Apparently you're simply not trying to fit them in anywhere, it's perfectly possible to make sense of it if you try. If it's that much of a problem you need to make a little effort, well, then the problem lies with you.

Let me take this further. Context isn't inherently bad. Context exists to make an imagined world more realistic and more immersive. However, this context has to have the capacity to be able to be used in the main canon; Bleach filler context, by its very nature (you said it yourself), cannot be used like this. That's bad context. That's context that does absolutely nothing. It's unnecessary. It's annoying.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

Don't lie. You were trying exactly the same thing he was.

Didn't know we had a mind-reader in here. Do you know how absurd this statement is? I'm telling you that I was mocking him. Continue to insist upon your silly presumption, but that is where I stand.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

It's not like people who like fillers are against the main plot or don't want it to move on. The fillers are a nice distraction while Kubo works on the manga and you know the 'main plot' will continue at some point, beats no Bleach at all by miles.

I said before, fillers are just plain old fanservice. They don't serve any other purpose than that. This is inherently bad when the main canon has yet to be finished.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

Very easy.

In context, please.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

I've been doing this, maybe you looked over it. If you want to call people dumb because they enjoy seasons of a show that are very much alike to the rest of the show, just go ahead, no one will mind. In fact, a great deal of series even lack any sense of a continuous plot at all (The Simpsons, Futurama, South Park, Cheers to name a few) and have comparable if not larger fan bases than Bleach.

Please use less shitty analogues. The Simpsons, Futurama, South Park, and Cheers are all comedy-driven TV shows. Bleach is distinctly not comedy. Comedies are subject to different critique than dramas like Bleach are.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

Now I know you already said having a large fanbase doesn't guarantee quality, which I agree to, but, going by your 'logical reason' for explaining this, either all these people would have to be idiots (which is highly unlikely),

You presume much. The more likely scenario is that all/most of these people are just complacent/lazy/ignorant. And I suppose there has to be a significant amount of idiots thrown in there as well.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

or the reason these series are good or bad is defined by overall quality rather than the existence of continuity in a main plot by itself, which would be the more logical option to any neutral party judging the matter.

Are you serious? Are you seriously implying here that plot quality has no relation to the overall quality of a series? I hope that isn't the case, because that would be sad. In a show/manga such as Bleach, plot is extremely important. Having the disjointed, contained "plot" that comedy shows have wouldn't make Bleach just horrible; it would make it almost unbearable to watch/read as well.

Originally Posted by Tamahagane

So you don't watch the Anime (I'm sure you did at some point). I'm guessing you must be a very emphatic person to get so worked up about the fillers, who don't affect you whatsoever in that case, and insist to bereft people who enjoy them and do think they're good of their ability to form their opinion and call them dumb, then.

Ah, going for another straw-man/ad-hominem, eh? That's a little disappointing.

[Nuclei]

I never explicitly called any person "dumb." I labeled actions/tendencies of people as "dumb." There's a difference. I hope you can see it.

Stupid is as stupid does, or so they say.

Also, Futurama does have a plot, or at least a continuity.

[Tsukuyomi]

Originally Posted by ByakuyaMayuri

I think I know that already. The bount arc has been completed for a long time now. Did you read the rest of what I said or did you read just parts? I was comparing Fullbring arc to the current filler arc, Gotei 13 Invasion Army, and so far it's doing great.

To me it seemed that only the first paragraph was directed towards me and the other paragraph was more about why you like fillers.

[pyarlbi]

Originally Posted by ByakuyaMayuri

Tsukuyomi, Lets put it this way the canon version is nowhere near perfect, and people shouldn't be hating on fillers just because it isn't canon. In fact Amagai arc was a perfect example of what should've happen (Well not exactly how it occurred) in the canon. After Aizen, Gin and Tosen betrayed the soul society whatever happen to the idea of replacing the empty 3 captain slots, especially at a time when Aizen declared war against the soul society.

I thought bounts arc was actually more interesting then the fullbring arc. Bount arc had so much more emotions rather than Fullbring arc. Not only did we see a sad struggle of Kariya throughout his childhood, but we also saw how Uryu developed feelings for one of the bounts, Yoshino, who turned rouged against Kariya who eventually ended up dying at the hands of him. You can't help but to feel for the poor Quincy boy.

If you want to be current on the fillers.. Lets use Gotei 13 Invasion Army for an example. I don't know about anyone else, but I am interested in the history behind the mod souls, and where they actually came from and so on. Here we see a fragile mined Nozomi who didn't want to get close to anyone. Many thought that she was highly annoying, and I guess thats ok since she wasn't the most aggressive one in the pack. I found it very interesting how a mod soul was able to established a zanpaktou and actually obtained a shikai as a result. Is it possible that a mod soul can also establish the use of bankai?!?!?!? It just enlightens me to want to see the the true Nemu form, and to figure out why she has that same red necklace that we saw when Rukia was in prison in the SS arc. Theirs gotta be a story behind it, and maybe Mayuri is sealing off most of her powers for a reason?

Also the filler didnt drag ass as much as the fullbring arc had... and to bring back the bount... their form of power was so much more interesting to see then the fullbrings.

Same in my case.